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Reports From Iraq > Mon., Feb. 23, 2004
Pacifica Reports From Iraq
Human Rights Activist Ahmet Faruk Unsal
Ahmet Faruk Unsal is a member of the Turkish Parliament from
the ruling Islamic AK (Justice and Development Parti). A driving
force behind the Turkish Parliament historic refusal last year
to allow George Bush to launch a second front on Iraq from Turkish
soil, Unsal is also a human rights activist and a board member
of Amnesty International. We spoke to him at his office in the
capital Ankara.
Unsal: I really don't guess what will happen next in Iraq because Kurdish
government -- or the Kurdish administration maybe - couldn't
find enough support to make their own political programs because
there is resistance from regional countries. For example Iran,
Turkey, and also Syria is also resisting to their federal
solution, you know. I'm not a Turkish Nationalist. I'm looking
at these kind of subjects first of all in a realistic and
humanistic way. Federation on an ethnic basis as we say in
Yugoslavia experience. Its not realistic. Its not easy to
manage because when you base a political structure on an ethnic
stages there cannot be passing from one ethnicity to another
it will be impossible, you know. So if you make an ethnic
structure this will make --
Pacifica: It will keep people separated--
Unsal: But of course I am anxious about future armed conflicts
so rather than an ethnic federation I prefer a democratic
Iraq, which will respect the cultural properties of each group.
Pacifica: This may be something new for people in the United
States. People often compare Iraq to Palestine with the suicide
bombings, but people do not often compare Iraq to Yugoslavia
in America so its an interesting comparison that you make.
Unsal: Yes I know but this is my idea, and I know that if
you put put a block between peoples then afterwards when you
build an ethnic structure on this conflict it will not help
bring peace for our future so when we look back at the history
of the world we can see this and we must urge them not to
make an ethnic separated political bodies so I think Turkey's
choice is right.
Pacifica: But what power does Turkey have in this situation?
I was very interested too see that when Prime Minister Tayyip
Erdogan was in South Korea he was encouraging South Korea
to send troops to Kirkuk because Turkish troops can't go.
Unsal: Yeah Kirkuk is the most problematic city in Northern
Iraq. There is not one ethnic group that has a majority. Approximately
all the ethnic groups are equal in populations. In the past
Saddam was trying to change the balance for Arabs. He was
encouraging Arab populations to settle in Kirkuk and he changed
the nature of the ethnic view of Kirkuk. Now Kurds are there.
This is really tragic-comic. It will create tension between
brothers, you know, Arabs, Kurds, Turkomens, and Assyrians
because their numbers are very equal.
Pacifica: But what it looks like what this is leading to
-- because as you say it will be very difficult to make a
federal Iraq along ethnic lines -- is you see more and more
the possibility of Kurdistan emerging. Do you think it would
be bad if Barzani and Talabani decided to give up on Iraq
and form a country called Kurdistan?
Unsal: It is not realistic. I do not want to say that they
do not have a right to make their own decisions, but being
realistic I see that when those kinds of political structures
will happen there will be really complicated problems -- wars
maybe -- and I don't want any more blood because of such problems.
We can solve our problems without armed conflicts and the
way to solve this problem without this problem is democratic
Iraq. Why not urge us to set up a democratic Iraq. Its not
realistic (to set up Kurdistan). It's not humanistic.
Pacifica: Do you think the situation would be better or worse
if there were 10,000 Turkish troops in Iraq. If they had to
be able to go--
Unsal: I think it would be very, very bad for Turkey. Not
only for Turkey. For Iraq for Kurds for Turkomens for Arabs.
I think Turkey should never send its troops to conflict regions.
Pacifica: Why? Because most people in this Parliament building
think its about strategic interest.
Unsal: But then I want to ask those people why they didn't
send troops if its so strategic. Everybody sees the danger
not only in Turkey but in the region so nobody has the courage
to send Turkish troops to this region. Everybody sees it.
So its really a difficult decision.
Pacifica: What's the most important thing you think I should
know?
Unsal: I think the most important thing is that if you construct
a political system on an ethnic basis it will be the end of
Iraq. As a Muslim, as a human, as a member of Parliament,
and as a child of this region I see the end of Iraq will be
the beginning of a very bloody process. I think democratic
elections including all groups there is a good compromise.
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